P:
कलये श्री कार्तिकेयं करुणापूर्ण गाङ्गेयं
കലയേ ശ്രി കാര്തികേയം കരുണാ പൂര്ണ ഗാംഗേയം
kalaye śrī kārtikeyaṁ karuṇāpūrṇa gāṅgeyaṁ
AP:
शरवणभवं भवदुरित तारणपोतं मयूरवाहनं षडाननं गजाननानुजं
ശരവണഭവം, ഭവ ദുരിത താരണപോതം, മയൂരവാഹനം, ഷഡാനനം , ഗജാനനാനുജം ((കലയേ ശ്രി കാര്തികേയം)
Sarvanabhavam, bhavaduritha thaaranapotham, mayooravaahanam, shadananam, Gajananujam (Kalyea)
C1:
अमरसञ्चय सेनापतिं वल्लीदेवसेनापतिं भक्तचिदानन्द मतिं बालसुब्रह्मण्यं
അമരസഞ്ചയ സേനാപതിം, വല്ലീദേവസേനാപതിം, ഭക്ത ചിദാനന്ദ മതിം, ബാലസുബ്ര മണ്യം
Amarasamchaya senapathim, valleedevasena pathim, bakthachidananda madhim, Baalasubhramaniam (Kalyea)
C 2-
SakalasAswatha jnAna Viyath GangApravAham,
SakalasAswathaiswarya pradam, Guham, Kumaram.
udayasooryasamkAsa vadanam, satrusamhAra nipunam,
samkaree putram Sugunam, Saswatham, Skantham Kalayae
അമരസഞ്ചയ സേനാപതിം, വല്ലീദേവസേനാപതിം, ഭക്ത ചിദാനന്ദ മതിം, ബാലസുബ്ര മണ്യം (കലയേ ശ്രി കാര്തികേയം)
Amarasamchaya senapathim, valleedevasena pathim, bakthachidananda madhim, Baalasubhramaniam (Kalyea)
A bouquet of thanks :
My thanks to Brahmasrees K.V. Anantharaman, V.K.Raman and
Ramachander for their support and blessings.
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Music set and sung by sri. VKR
kala…wma yE sr
sperinkulam
Blog
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कलये श्री कार्तिकेयं- kalaye śrī kārtikeyaṁ
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Crossing the compound wall
part 1
During my childhood, unmarried middle- aged men and elderly widowers, from Andhra and Tanjore districts used to come to our villages in search of brides from poor Brahmin families. My father sheltered one such person from Andhra and provided him free food, just for the sake of refurbishing his Telugu, learned during his young days in the Kadappa districts. I was told that bending their head down and holding it with their hands, parents of teenage girls remaining unmarried, used to curse their destiny and moan, ‘thalayai thookki nadakkamaudiyallaye” തലയയ് തൂക്കി നടക്ക മുടിയലയെ” I cannot walk on the street keeping my head erect “. Pre-puberty weddings were the order of the day and perhaps the dictate of the religious law-books too, I do not know. Education or employment was not girls’ priority but the marriage was. ‘Who will look after my daughter, when I am out of the scene?” was the parents’ worry. A genuine one in deed.When such parents were not able to find grooms with age-computability for their daughters, dumped them, with a heavy heart on widowers or from outside their state or province, speaking a different language, with or without children. Horoscopes matching, sagotra thiraskaram, koottu desai, kalasarpadosham, nakshthra porutham, yoniporutham, all poruthams, comparabilities were there except for a very minor incompatability- the bride was younger to her man by twenty or thirty years! Mostly the men were cooks, vaadyars, gumasthas, petty clerks or without any regular income. The girls, mostly in their teens or even younger, were too young to understand the implications of marrying a man of her father’s age or even elder and even if they were aware of, had little say in the matter.വിധി വിഹിത മേവനും ലംഖിട്ച്ചു കൂടുമോ?Who can challenge the Fate!That ready-made card of consolation was there for every one to pocket and find peace.Anyway, the family prestige was saved, the society was happy the girl enters the small house where she had to spend the rest of her life, a house full of old people, young children, one or two cows, lot of pooja vessels etc.etc.to be taken care of by her. The person who is sharing her bed today,is the one whom she used to call athai, athimbar, ammanji or an entirely an unknown man speaking an unknown language, from a place unheard of .However, the inborn inspiration, unique to women, to adapt to the new environment,awakes in her and she adjusts quickly to the new way of life and the new people and by her silent observation and smart decisions and actions, again unique to women, she becomes the center of action and attraction, a granite pillar of strength to the family. Her influence slowly spreads to the neighbor hood too, She has started wearing the customary 9 yards saries, stands behind her husband holding the sacred darbahi while he performes the monthly, annually, or more frequent rites and rituals, prepares twenty varieties of food,with her clean hand, simultaneously, pounding, roasting,mixing,frying different ingredients,faithfully serves the Brahmans,guests and eats late after feeding every one in the family. She always gets up first, sleeps last and while awake, keeps on attending to others’ needs.Whatever be the provocations from within or out, she does not allow her benign smile to fade from her face She had thus played her role in making those in the sky and below it, happy. Her own happiness was not an issue at all and nobody except her own mother, if she were alive, used to worry, mostly alone and some time with her husband.The parents, if their house was far and in another province, used to visit their daughter’s house only on very rare occasions. They hardly communicated with their offspring but always carried their love concealed in the depth of their hearts. On the rare occasions when they met, the mother used to inquire in privacy, ‘hope everything is fine?” ‘Ennamma soukiyama iruukkiya?” എന്നാമ്മാ, സൌക്യമായിരുക്കായാ ?” If she replies, ‘Ov, namma irukken amma; nee kavalai pedathe, appakkum chollu’.ഓവ് നന്നൈരുക്കെന് അമ്മാ നീ കവലയ് പാടാതെ; അപ്പാക്കിട്ടേം ചൊല്ല്”, the mother returns home happily and convey the message to every one back in her house and village. If the reply is,’oh, nannairukken’,ഓവ് നന്നൈരുക്കെന്, I am alright”, the mother weeps, covering her face with her sari after returning home, in the privacy of her bed room.Only a daughter and only a mother can understand that language,.The daughter lives for many more years, after serving and seeing off her husband and many others in the family.When she leaves for her eternal in-law’ place, where age or language,wealth or wisdom hardly matters, the young and old in the house and village weeps, the Brahmins, who were served several sumptuous doses of food by her, bows their head and cover their face with their angavastram, upper cloth, to conceal the surging tears. The neighbors who were benefited by her words of wisdom and consolation, sit and sob at her feet. The servant maids, the village barber, the washer woman,the tree-climber, the wood-cutter, the cows and crows – every living thing, who had eaten and drank from her hands, moans her loss.They lost, no doubt. But did she loose or gain in death?“ജീവിച്ച്ചിടുന്നു മ്രിതിയാല് ചിലര്, ചെത്ത് കൊണ്ട് ജീവിക്കയാണ് പലര് മൃത്യുവില് ഞാന് മരിക്കാ.” Mahakavi G.Sankara kurup“Jeevichidunnu mrithiyaal chilar,chethukondu jeevikkayanu palar,mrityuvil jnan marikka”Some live by dying, for many, living is dying. I will not die in death.You will see one such ‘athai’ walking among us, if you happen to bother to read my Pitchumani story.Ocala, Florida02 June 2010————————————————–part 2
Some 30/40 years ago, when school education and higher studies gained momentum among our girls,, there was a sudden awareness of a living pattern different from the one they are familiar with in their villages. You will not believe that in my own case, I was ashamed to realize when I visited the houses of Nair college mates, that there were no good furniture in my own house, though our economic status was higher than theirs. In those days pattar houses hardly had any furniture. One of my dreams then was to buy costly sofas when I have my own house. I have an own house for the past 40 years but I am yet to think of buying a sofa set! So perceptions change when time moves on.
So the exposure to an entirely new style of life around, away from the Ekadashi, pradosham,kovil,kolam surroundings, invoked in the yet-to-settle young minds, the thoughts of crossing the fence even at the cost of foregoing the affection and attachment of their parents and home where they were born and which affectionately nourished them till then. It was the result of an instant impulse, rather than a deep thinking about the future,in many cases,that triggered the monkey in their mind and you know what happens when monkeys and elephants go amuck! Some of our girls and boys looked at the opposite ones, as if they were seeing the full-moon for the first time, landed in their cool hands and then in their hot beds.
As usual, after the initial wailing and weeping helplessly,the parents tried to forget what they called the treachery of their offspring and wanted to forgo them. Blood undoubtedly, is thicker than water and the goats of gossip always prefer fresh fodder to munch.The mother goes to see her first grand child, though hesitantly, with or without her husband. Time, tragic or auspicious events in the family and several other happenings reunite and when the grand children are grown to adulthood, the old story is blissfully forgotten.
It is not that all such marriages were a story of success or failure. Marriages, arranged by parents or self-arranged, become a complex issue in some cases and there are several contributing factors. It was a simple issue as long as the husband was the only bread-earner and his word was the law. The wife knew where her place was and mostly it was in the kitchen. Her union with the husband and his family was ordained by the Gods rather a gift from Him, which she preserved as a privileged person. She was proud of her position,though physically and mentally it was a trauma for some. Those days are gone for ever.
It is not that all love marriages failed. Most of them did not in fact, thanks to the inbuilt tendency of our girls, to adjust to the changing environment. In my close circle, there were several such marriages and I give below my observation, purely personal, not meant to tarnish the image of our set-up or to influence your thinking.
I write for my satisfaction to express my views and not to preach.
At least in two cases which I remember, the girls crossed the fencing due to the hostile environment at home. The fathers were irresponsible drunkards,mothers meek house-wives ill treated by their wayward husbands, tolerated them without protest or insisting on their rights or authority in the family. The fear that their father will never be able to find a suitable partner from their own community which will not come forward to accept the daughter of a worthless vagabond, could be one of the reasons for the girls to migrate into another caste or religion. There were protests from the boys’ side too but in due course things became smoother and they are continuing as husbands and wife, children growing up well.There would have been a lot of adjustment problems en route and let us not worry about them now as the offspring are looking for full-moons either in their own garden or beyond the fencing!
Now the things are different. Both the boys and girls do not jump over the compound walls unless they are certain that the crossing is worth and there is a good pasture-land and not deserts or vacant lands on the other side. They discuss thread bare the problems bound to arise,even to the extend of naming their offspring!.
I attended half a dozen marriages before coming to US. Three girls were from rich thiyya communities, who met their partners in the University library or working place. The boys were from orthodox Iyer/Iyengar families,the boys were doctors or engineers or finance managers,their parents including some very old ladies attended the wedding, pure vegetable meals prepared by Uduppi brahmins were provided. So, I hardly noticed any difference-no,that is not a correct statement.- the girls were dark in complexion but it was difficult to notice their skin colour unless your eyes are as sharp as mine, since they were covered with dazzling gold ornaments head to toe, and today’s gold rate is 19,ooo and odd.per 10 gm!
It is not correct to say that our boys and girls are grabbed from the other side as our stock is better and theirs are of an inferior quality. if you can set aside for a moment your varnasrama dharma criteria of superiority of our children, the partners they select are matching in education, intelligence or income. Otherwise our children would not have chosen them. And another thing I would like to tell my friends is, if your son or daughter has selected a partner from other community,You need not bend your head,put a thorthumundu over it and sit on your thinnai. It is not your fault; it has nothing to do with your way of upbringing them. My children woke up from their cradle hearing the sound of my Rudra-Chamaka recitation or crinkling sound of my harati bells but today they neither do harati nor wait for an young sumangali to come from the opposite side, to take their car out of the shed. My friend sitting in Chennai, enjoying a mouthful of Panthalam vettalai can afford that but not mine or your children. Even in India it is not possible.
One more thing I would like to remind you is that just as we have reservation to accept boys or girls from other communities,their parents too have objections. I have spoken to many parents and found that given an option, they would like to have the alliance within their own community. Some thirty years ago, I went to Kottayam to attend an intercaste marriage. The granny of the boy was almost in tears,when she hugged me with a haggard face, swallowed her saliva, addressed me as ‘Atcho!” (It is still a mystery for me why she called me so ) and mentioned in a pathetically stammering voice that she tried to stop this wedding but could not, as her grand son was adamant .
“‘will she have the same feeling as I do, while lighting candles in front of Yeshu? Will she have the same feeling as I do, when she covers the head before prayers?’
Over an year ago, one boy related to me married a Gowder girl.The Gowder took me aside ( I don’t know why the parents are always catching me!) and explained how hard he tried to persuade the girl to forget the boy.the women-folk too were against it. But the marriage took place. The Gowder was happy because, while taking leave of him, I gifted him a bunch of Guntur suruttu. I was also happy as I could weave a story, apart from sharing the happiness of the couple, that I did attend their wedding despite some inconveniences .
Enjoy the story,” call me to sing a kathakali song” in the below given link:
Love and regards,
sperinkulam
Ocala, Florida
03 June 2010
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Comments
Pattars- their faces and phrases –contd– chapter 4
From:iyer123@yahoogroups.com on behalf of shanti subra (shantisubra@gmail.com)
Sent:04 June 2010 04:16AM
To:Sivasubramanian Perinkulam (sivaratna@hotmail.com); Iyer123 (iyer123@yahoogroups.com)
Dear Sivasubramanian ji
Excellent writing. Extremely saddned to know about the sorry state and the plight of erstwhile girls/ladies of brahmin household. It was a curse to be born as a FEMALE in the MALE dominated brahmin community two generations up.
The ones who raised the topic of Brahmin boys not getting suitable brides or girls marrying outside the community which makes rounds for sometime now in the forum wil read this?
Now when the Female try to over come the many curses put on them by the yester year Males thru education and awareness, the MALEs who no more can over power poor FEMALES, now cry in silence to get a Wife, a Daughter-in-law. The Egoistic MALES could not accept this down turn. So they put the blame on the prospective brides and their mothers that they ask “what is the salary etc?” They could not digest this? They are bewildered.
Hope the MALE bastion realises this no sooner than late and let their mothers change their outlook towards their DiLs and learn to treat them well if their sons ever get a female partner.
Kind Regards
Shanti -
The saint of Kanchi
Friends,Here is a set of pictures of a great saint whom we all revere. I had the fortune of falling under his feet, at a very young age, driven by my Bhavani periammai, who was a member of the matom for all practical purposes. When I grew, I used to keep regular contact with the mutt and came very close to joining the mutt as one of the assistants. ‘Antha kundamantiyeyum cherthukkungolda’ .The saint ordained.‘Kuntamanties’ have no place in a mutt. The saint was saved,; the mutt was saved.In December, 1985 when my last son was born, I rushed to him.He was then camping at Kurnool, on the bank of the river Tungabadra. I have dipped my body in the cool waters of the Ganga, several time. But in Tungabadra, when I dipped this mortal coil into her cool embrace, I was not alone. The Gods and angels from the sky above also had a dip along with me.Or that was what I thought then.We go to a temple or to meet a saint or to have a dip in a holy river, only for the development of such thoughts with in us, may be for a moment, isn’t so ?മുപ്പത്തി മുക്കോടി ത്തെവാളും ഇന്ദ്രനുംമുംമൂര്തി കളും വേദ ബ്രാഹ്മ ണാ ളുംMany of you would have had that unique experience, if not in the Tungabadhra but in many other places. His very presence itself was dipping in a holy river or sitting near the flag-post, kodimaram of a big temple. A flag- post, he was undoubtedly. I do not have a picture of the saint in my house. But many time, he peers into my mind and withdraws quickly, as his vision become blurred the moment he enters there.That is OK. He continues to love me. Distance does not decimate Love.Thanks to Raju anna of Singapore for sharing these rare pictures with us— On Fri, 28/5/10, Narayanan <savitha@pacific.net.sg> wrote:From: Narayanan <savitha@pacific.net.sg>Subject: Fw: Maha Periyavaa’s photosTo: Undisclosed-Recipient@yahoo.comDate: Friday, 28 May, 2010, 17:49courtesy of a kind friendsorry, size is unavoidable!—– Original Message —–From:Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010Subject: Maha Periyavaa’s photosJAYA JAYA SANKARAHARA HARA SANKARAToday is Kanchi Maha Periyavaa Jayanthi.He was born in this Anusha Nakshithiram ofVaikasi month 116 years ago (per Gregoriancalendar it is May 20, 1894).Here is a collection of Maha Periyavaa’s photos– some seen often and others not so.RegardsSrinivasan -
Sagotra marriages
To: 4brahmins@yahoogroups.com; iyer123@yahoogroups.com; atchuth@gmail.com
From: sivaratna@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 18:35:33 +0530
[Iyer123] Sagotra marriagesFriends,To vehemently oppose the far and few sagotra marriages taking place in our iyer community and confuse the parents who would like to consider such options for their children is nothing but throwing a monkey wrench into the works. Our children are already tied with several outdated ideas and restrictions which stunted their growth and narrowed their vision. Instead of being led through the ‘rajamaargam’ the royal pathway of the great values of our scintillating past by removing the impurities accumulated during the long journey of the Ganges of our culture, we justify them just because our elders followed them, under entirely different circumstances.Things are changing fast. I was there to watch the launch of the latest space shuttle, Atlantis, on 14th of this month ,from the Kennedy space center. Six bold men were in that .They did not bother to verify whether it was Rahu Kalam or Gulika kalam when they entered, risking their life, into that complicated machinery which will take them into space, millions of miles away from their home.Then why do we worry pacing the floor area between our kitchen and hall when our grandchild has to appear for a written and oral test for his LKG, at an inauspicious day,the time fixed by the son of a slug or snail ?മാറ്റുവിന് ചട്ടങ്ങളെ നിങ്ങള് നിങ്ങല്ലെകിലോമാറ്റും അവകളീ നിങ്ങളെത്താന്Roared Mahakavi Kumaran AssanIf you don’t change those (outdated) rules, they will remove you( from the scene for ever)That is happening. We are already removed from the center scene. Because of our ‘touch- me- not’ attitude, our children are waiting with begging bowls in front of the education institutions, in front of job opportunities..They are bowing their heads because of our obstinacy.I am giving below my personal experience and I do not advocate that you follow this and acquire the anger of your ancestor and condemnation of the elders of this forum..My only daughter is married to a sagotra boy from a cultured Telugu Vaishnava family and they are living happily,and I live with them now, thanks to the blessings of Guruvayoorappan and my ancestors including that great ancestor ‘Kousika’ from whom my daughter and son in law are believed to have originated.(wonder whether my Kousika thatha bothered to verify the gotram of Menaka before he fell into her cool,celestial arms ) There was no need for me to take even medical opinion because iyer-iyenagar mixing would have never happened in the past ruling out the possibility of problems due to Consanguinity.Thirty years ago,I performed the wedding of my last sister with another iyengar boy and now there are three iyengar samabandies for me projecting prominent namams on religious functions. All those mix-up have produced well behaving,well educated decent offspring.We are closing more doors and windows instead of opening them to the airy and flowery garden outside. Varnasrama dharma is dead and gone, why are we making so much noise on that? Are we now ruled by kshatriyas and served by soodras?. We are serving them. We are waiting with a cup of tea for them to sip at their leisure. With a file stuck in the arm pit, we run after them when they mount a platform to abuse our community. Then where is that ‘dharamam’ ? We are bargaining for our ‘coolie’ wages,by the side of a dead body; we are selling cooked food. We are giving our daughters to chicken -eating-chiranjeevies, after washing their feet with sanctified water ! And we call others as ‘pariahs’ and patties,dogs, because they eat meat!.And before I take leave of you,I am happy to inform you that I have two normal healthy, sparkling, vibrant,naughty grand children from my daughter and what a relief “They are neither animal, bird or butterfly. Or slug or snail”. Elders,Sorry to waste your valuable time with my personal matters.Meet you again if the moderator circulates this post and allows to continue this ‘paraya’ in this forum. Otherwise we will meet in other forums till they also throw me out or through my website, where I am publishing this article.And to elders with ‘abhivadaye’ let us debate, argue forcefully But let us not use abusive language about any one in this forum and especially those from other communities. If we do that we will not last long. Viji and Prakash will then have plenty of time to spend with their families instead of struggling to screen our posts and scratch their heads.Love and regards,sperinkulamThis was in response to Sri.Narayanswamy Subrmanian’s post on 19th May,2010 and a few others on the subject whether one can marry with in the same gotram.If the Jews, Christians and Muslims are correct, everyone living today in this world was born as a result of repeated and continuing incest. Approved, ordained, and sanctified by God. Unedr the doctrine: “Go ye forth, and multiply!”
Eve came from Adam’s rib. Their children inter-mated, i.e. brothers mated with sisters. And so on ad nauseam. Same as any animal, bird or butterfly. Or slug or snail.Mrs Saroja Ramakrishnan, cheenu @ coimbatore, and others who want to kick over our shasthric practice of identifying ourselves as siblings belonging to the same gothram, are in good company with Adam and Eve and their descendants.Mrs Saroja Ramakrishnan, cheenu @ coimbatore, and others who want to kick over our shasthric practice of identifying ourselves as siblings belonging to the same gothram, are in good company with Adam and Eve and their descendants.
Re Chgeenu’s query. If a Brahmin family belonging to the Bhaaradwaaja gothram adopts a female puppy, gives it the name of Mahalakshmi, would it not become a human Brahmin virgin eligible to marry a non-Bhaaradwaaja Brahmin boy ? Mutatis mutandis, same applies to adopted humans.S Narayanaswamy Iyer————————————————————————————–CC: thatha_patty@yahoogroups.com; iyer123@yahoogroups.com; USBrahmins@yahoogroups.com; silveragers@yahoogroups.com
From: gvshwnth@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 23:51:57 -0700
EXTRACTAt the outset let me admit that my views are irrelevant and I don’t qualify to give an informed opinion on this tricky question. So I am going public with my views with great trepidation and hesitation.I humbly seek pardon in advance from those who may find my views distasteful. Simply ignore me please but do not flame me!In brief:
Shasti Srinivasan’s views appeal to me. I would like to lend a sympathetic chord. He is doing truly yoeman’s service. All strength to his noble eblow!n these modern days when geographical, and cultural borders are crumbling, when even race and religion are becoming irrelevant to some among our younger generation, caste has already become irrelevant to many among our younger folks, and marriages between Iyers/Iyengars/Maadhavaas/ Smarthas and also marriages to non brahmins are becoming common, getting deeper into Gothra,Nakshatram, etc. while not undesirable per se, need not cause so much friction among us elders, who are any way not in the race for marriage and not eligible too. Why should we sit in judgment over what rules future generations should follow regarding marriages? We have glossed over so many practices that are not exactly per our community’s norms and Shaastras as a necessary compromise with modern times. But in this matter of Gotra, we are raising hell !fully support the views of those who point out the absurdity of allowing a marraige to the Athai’s son or Mama’s daughter but throw a fit on Sagothra marriage under the guise of genetic dangers. So what if the gothra of your Maama’s daughter or Athai’s son is different? Genetically are they not nearer? Yet marraiges between cousins is rampant among our community.Purely from genetic considerations, if two generations are checked, three if possible or practical and there is no blood relation, I would recommend we simply go ahead and not worry too much about Gothra. A blood test (for blood group, aids etc) is more relevant but who considers that these days?I would also like to consider the possibility that some one suggested that same Gothra merely means that thousands of years ago, a group of persons were disciples of a particular Rishi. They were not necessarily his progeny. So “Sagothra” does not necessarily mean a genetic connection. And neither does the fact that the Gothra’s are different preclude totally a genetic connection.I am also appalled at some “stars” being considered “untouchables”I am shocked to hear that Kettai is not a fancied star.Thank God I did not know this in 1975.My wife is a “Kettai” and is the star of my life!We have had a happy marriage for 36 years so far.I am also amused to hear that Aayilyam is dangerous!To conclude:I have no problem with a Sagotra marriage if no blood relationship is obvious. I will adopt this as my policy when my son (who is still too young) gets ready for marriage. However I wonder if I will ever get a chance to participate in the process of selection of a suitable bride for him. Like most modern youngsters, he may select on his own. I will be content if he informs me and seeks my blessings which will be readily given, irrespective of Gotra and Nakshatra.At the same time, I respect the views of those who feel Gotra is an issue on which there can be no compromise. I will merely like to agree to disagree with them and opt out of a debate with them. I have no compulsive desire or need to convince them. However, I am distressed at the rather strong views expressed by one of us who suggested that we should boycott such marriages! I am sure even if we do, the happy couple will not miss us one bit! I take solace in the fact that merely boycotting has been suggested, not beheading as the Khap Panchayats wish to do.Regards to allGV—————————————————————————————–Date: Thu, 20 May 2010
Subject: Re: [Iyer123] Can one do Sagothram Marriages?
From: sashti.s@gmail.com
To: sivaratna@hotmail.com; gvshwnth@yahoo.com; srinivasan.ms2000@gmail.com; thatha_patty@yahoogroups.com; iyer123@yahoogroups.com; USBrahmins@yahoogroups.com; silveragers@yahoogroups.com; BRAHMINASSOCIATION-owner@yahoogroups.co.in; madraslawyer@yahoo.co.in; gbsub@yahoo.com
CC: 4brahmins@yahoogroups.com; atchuth@gmail.com; ushatr@gmail.com; iyerkvs@gmail.com; aaviskar2006@yahoo.co.in; vibrantkumar@yahoo.com; rajpandit22@yahoo.com; subramamanan_gopalaswamy@yahoo.co.in; swetha.iyer@gmail.com; srinivasantt@yahoo.com-Dear Friends,
I am touched by the outpouring supporting/justifying and divergent views by Members of this esteemed Forum, Honorable GV, GSubramanian and Perumkulam — you are not my personal friend(s), that I know of or met over the years, but this great debate on the above subject has brought us together.
I don’t consider we are friends just because you agree and vote for, or give your favorable opinions, but you do so freely, frankly and fearlessly, in our Brahmin Society, “mildly endorsing” Sagothram wedding celebrations, in the context of where and how we are and the society we live in and a set of very changed circumstances, in this modern day and age that we live in, many of us, far and wide away from our distant Motherland, not knowing what to do with our children of marriageable age who have gone out in several directions to make an eking in what they believe is “a land of opportunity” — it could be U.S.A, Canada, U.K. Australia and/or Middle East, Western European countries like France, Germany and Norway, where parents of children of marraigeable are, with parents pleading helplessly to get their children married; whose cause, I am seeking to serve through this Forum; some of you like GV, G. Balasubramanian, and Perumkulam putting your reputation at stake in voicing your valuable opinions in such Public Forums where you have been held in high esteem by our Members and others, like G.V.S Iyer (Purohit) or our Vaadhiyar who has somewhat of divergent (different) in his views, very vociferous to his fatih and beliefs that he has to practice every day, giving out his opinions as “an authority and scholar well versed in our shastras” as he ekes out his living, as a “Purohit” with his dissenting views on this matter, which also I greatly admire, value and respect!
And our friend, Kim Ramachandran (a long time Native American Resident) who has voiced his “line item veto” like the U.S. Congress wanted to give our U.S. President but each party voted it down whether the other Party’s President was in power, “for or “against” each line item comment by the Learned Purohit (Vaadhiyaar), GVS Iyer
My children, daughter and son are happily married and settled in life, by God’s grace and blessings! It is not their cause that I am advocating or pleading for or championing to promote! It is your cause, people’s cause, parents of boys and girls of marriageable age, living in the U.S. Canada, U.K. Europe, Middle East, Australia and NZ, the world over! And when I connect a boy and girl of marraiageable age, in a distant, remote and far away land, where I see a “ray hope” of marriage between the two “jeevans” coming together and “tieing a knot”, and then a parent of the boy or gal comes and axes, “but we are Sagothram” or closes out the conversation with an abrupt remark “but that the Naksthram, Moolam, Ayilyam, Kettai and Pooradam, are not on the list of Naksthrams that our Astrologer gaveus as matching stars with that of their son or daughter”, or “we are Vadakalai Iyengars and they are Vadamas, Madhwas, Ashtasahasram, Brahacharnam“, that is what puts a closure to my whole effort and I see my efforts at the prospect of a “matrimony” once and for all “dimming” for that boy and girl; it pains my heart, making me feel that I, as a Father of that boy or girl, “losing” the battle to get them married and see a happy culmination of a wedding celebration fade! In my Life Time! In Your Life Time!
Parents, I appeal to you, don’t let us happen to your children!
Respectfully yours,
VSrinivasan
3614 Columbia Blvd
Garland, Texas 7503-2246
tel: 001-972-840-3495
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Display images below – Always display images from vm194211@yahoo.co.in—————————————————————————————————- Forwarded message ———-From: Mahadevan Venkitasubbiar <vm194211@yahoo.co.in>Date: Tue, May 25, 2010 at 1:56 PMSubject: Re: [Iyer123] Sagotra MarriagesTo: iyer123 <iyer123@yahoogroups.com>For the past few days, one has been regularly reading in this forum, arguments and counter- arguments prohibiting Sagothra Marriages. Perhaps, this topic has assumed added significance because of almost a national debate on the subject, provoked by recent happenings in Haryana.The protaganists of the “Prohibit Sagothra Marriages”, believe that those belonging to the same Gothras come within the prohibited relationship and therefore such marriges would not be in the interest of the offspring.They also argue that this is in conformity with Hindu Marriages Act.The same group of people vehemently argue in favour of uncles marrying nieces or cousins (children of brothers and sisters) marrying each other, citing traditions.Let us now examine the relevant provisions of Hindu Marriage Act. Section 2 of this Act, defines the prohibited relationships. Among others,the following are prohibited relationships:brothers and sistersUncle and nieceaunts and nephewschildren of brothers and sistersThus, under the Hindu Marriages Act, an uncle marrying his niece or children of brothers and sisters marrying each other, come within the prohibited degree. Yet, we have no qualms in encouraging these marriages (particularly in South India), because the Hindu Marriage Act has an enabling provision.Section 5 (iv) says that the marrying persons are not within the degree of prohibited relationship, unless the custom or usage governing each of them permits of a marriage between the two.Thus, the rule prohibits marrying within the prohibited relationship. But the exception is the custom or usage. We take umbrage under the exception and defy the rule without any qualm. This is how we support the marriage of uncles with nieces or children of brothers and sisters marrying each other.Medically, in this forum, doctors have averred that consanguinous marriages lead to defective genes in children.Those who take support from a legal loophole and defying medical opinion, argue in favour of discouraging Sagothra marriage on the ground that it comes wihin the prohibited relationship. There are no scientic evidence to show that unrelated families belonging to same Gothra come within the consanguinous relations. Thus, they are afraid of an unknown consaguinous relationship from same Gothras, but do not hesitate to defy known consanguinous relationships and take shelter under an exception of the Hindu Marriages Act, completely oblivious of the Rule.I do not advocate Sagothra marriages. I only advocate that if in all respects there is agreement, Sagothra should not stand in the way, except when the consanguinous relationships are known.On any day, marrying the member from an unrelated family, but belonging to the same Gothra is better than marrying one’s niece or cousin.V.Mahadevan———- Forwarded message ———-From: Mahadevan Venkitasubbiar <vm194211@yahoo.co.in>Date: Tue, May 25, 2010 at 1:56 PMSubject: Re: [Iyer123] Sagotra MarriagesTo: iyer123 <iyer123@yahoogroups.com>
For the past few days, one has been regularly reading in this forum, arguments and counter- arguments prohibiting Sagothra Marriages. Perhaps, this topic has assumed added significance because of almost a national debate on the subject, provoked by recent happenings in Haryana. The protaganists of the “Prohibit Sagothra Marriages”, believe that those belonging to the same Gothras come within the prohibited relationship and therefore such marriges would not be in the interest of the offspring.They also argue that this is in conformity with Hindu Marriages Act. The same group of people vehemently argue in favour of uncles marrying nieces or cousins (children of brothers and sisters) marrying each other, citing traditions. Let us now examine the relevant provisions of Hindu Marriage Act. Section 2 of this Act, defines the prohibited relationships. Among others,the following are prohibited relationships: brothers and sisters Uncle and niece aunts and nephews children of brothers and sisters
Thus, under the Hindu Marriages Act, an uncle marrying his niece or children of brothers and sisters marrying each other, come within the prohibited degree. Yet, we have no qualms in encouraging these marriages (particularly in South India), because the Hindu Marriage Act has an enabling provision.
Section 5 (iv) says that the marrying persons are not within the degree of prohibited relationship, unless the custom or usage governing each of them permits of a marriage between the two.
Thus, the rule prohibits marrying within the prohibited relationship. But the exception is the custom or usage. We take umbrage under the exception and defy the rule without any qualm. This is how we support the marriage of uncles with nieces or children of brothers and sisters marrying each other. Medically, in this forum, doctors have averred that consanguinous marriages lead to defective genes in children. Those who take support from a legal loophole and defying medical opinion, argue in favour of discouraging Sagothra marriage on the ground that it comes wihin the prohibited relationship. There are no scientic evidence to show that unrelated families belonging to same Gothra come within the consanguinous relations. Thus, they are afraid of an unknown consaguinous relationship from same Gothras, but do not hesitate to defy known consanguinous relationships and take shelter under an exception of the Hindu Marriages Act, completely oblivious of the Rule. I do not advocate Sagothra marriages. I only advocate that if in all respects there is agreement, Sagothra should not stand in the way, except when the consanguinous relationships are known.On any day, marrying the member from an unrelated family, but belonging to the same Gothra is better than marrying one’s niece or cousin. V.Mahadevan
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കരുണാ വാരിധെ എനിക്കഭയമേകണം നീ
ഒരുനുള്ളു മണ്ണ് തിന്നു ഉലകൊന്നു പണിതമ്മ-
ക്കെതിരെ വായ് തുറന്നു നിന്നൊരു മായാമയൻ നീ ;ഒരു പിടിയവിൽ പിടി ച്ചെ ടുത്തു ബാല്യമിത്രന്റെ
കൊടിയ ദാരിദ്ര ദുഃഖ മകറ്റിയകുബേരൻ നീ
ഒരു ചീര ഇല കൈക്കൊണ്ടു ദുർവാസാദി വന്ദ്യർതൻ
വിശപ്പാറ്റി യുദിഷ്ടിരാധികളെ കാത്തവാൻ നീഗുരുവായുപുരപതെ, വിജയ സാരഥേ കൃഷ്ണാ,കരുണാ വാരിധെ എനിക്കഭയമേകണം നീ 1കുരുവര്ഗം കുലസ്ത്രീ യെ പരസ്യമായപമാനിച്ചതുതാങ്ങാ തവള് മാനം പരിരക്ഷിച്ചവന് നീകരച്ചില്കെട്ടോടിവന്നു കരീന്ദ്രനെ മുത ല തന്പിടിയില് നിന്ന് രക്ഷിട്ച്ച ഗരുടവാഹനന് നീഅതിഘോര നരസിംഹ സ്വരൂപനായ് ഹിരണ്യനെ
വധം ചെയുതു ധരണി തൻ കദനം തീര്ത്തവൻ നീഗുരുവായുപുരപതെ, വിജയ സാരഥേ കൃഷ്ണാ,കരുണാ വാരിധെ എനിക്കഭയമേകണം നീഇടിയും മിന്നലും കാറ്റും കൊടിയ വര്ഷമും ചേര്ന്ന്മനസ്സിനെ കുലുക്കുമ്പോള് അടുത്ത് നില്ക്കണം നീഇടയ്ക്കിടെ വിഷക്കാ റ്റു വിതറി വന്നിടും സരപ –ഫ ണ ങ്ങളെ കീഴിലാക്കി നടനം ആടണം നീവെയിലിലും മഴയിലും ഇരുളിലും വെളിച്ചത്തുംകരഞ്ഞാലും ചിരിച്ചാലും അടുത്തു ണ്ടാ ക ണം നീഗുരുവായുപുരപതെ, വിജയ സാരഥേ കൃഷ്ണാ,കരുണാ വാരിധെ എനിക്കഭയമേകണം നീ -
En me matha
In the olden days too, women had sacrificed their Chastity under various conditions.
Innocence in the initial stage and later, necessity prompted Kunti to accept husbands of divine celebrities other than the human husband ordained for her. Impersonation impelled Ahalya to fall into the hands of a celestial celebrity who was lured by her pristine beauty. Jabala became polyandrous due to occupational hazard combined with abject poverty. Ambika and Ambhalika, were forced by their mother-in-law, Satyavathy, to accept Vyasa, as their husband for the purpose of creating a heir for the crown.
Such incidents would have happened earlier too. Human weakness and necessities, like many other things, have no dates.
So, it was therefore natural for the Rishies to expect the recurrence of such things in the future too and it was in their immense wisdom and practical outlook that they ensured that our pindadhanam, offering to manes reach our biological father.
They never had in their mind my mother or your mother and therefore let us not become emotional while reciting the above mantram. Mantras are common for all, including Jabala Satyakama and Siva Perinkulam.
After confirming from my son Atchu hat he had not already chosen a girl for pairing, I started searching for one and within a day or two, located a girl through the net, showed the profile to my son and when he conveyed his approval, sent his horoscope to the girl’s father with a note that I was prepared to accept his astrologer’s verdict as I was not keen on the horoscope- matching.